Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! Why so delicate, bro? This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 49% battery remaining. My Bullit died after 80 miles - same symptoms you describe. No, you're running the latest EP8. The Shimano EP8 user interface is similarly elegant in its design. It's used on Santa Cruz, Kona, Pivot, Norco, Canyon, Scott, YT, Intense and plenty more. Its considerably bulkier than Shimano EP8, dominating the Levos frame profile while also putting limitations on rear wheel clearance. Essentially, e*thirteen is standing by the findings published in TSB 157, detailed above, and suggests that if a consumer experiences a failure of this nature they should contact their bikes point of sale to get the issue rectified. I rode the engine too, the thing is the engine is super quiet once you charge on the pedals, and you've got that annoying rattling noise as soon as you are on the freewheel and cruising down the trail Shim is working on it from what they said. As to how the de-tuned EP8 motor performs? An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! I mean, one of the most beautiful things about the bicycle is how efficient and capable it is of traveling long distances under our own power. e*thirteen recommends inspecting Shimano EP8 motor spindles to ensure no cracks are present before riding any EP8 equipped bike again and in doing so have provided a step by step process for doing this with images and instructions below. If a dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is in use. You still have the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost. Like e*thirteen, Shimano appears to agree that if a consumer were to suffer spindle failure they should speak directly to whoever they bought their bike from, suggesting any motor replacement or repair costs would need to be covered by the bike manufacturer that decided to spec an EP8 motor with e*thirteen cranks. IMO we're still in the pilot phase and have a lot of room for improvement. Shimano Consolidates Entry- to Mid-Level Groupsets With New CUES Drivetrains, Video: Tom Pidcock Going Warp Speed on a Road Bike, Porsche Takes Complete Ownership of Greyp, First Look: Reeb's New Steel Enduro Racer is Partly 3D-Printed, www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wanneroo/bicycle-parts-and-accessories/men-s-petrol-bike-mountain-bike-/1259285475, www.cyclevolta.com/story/ebike-components/hold-up-shimanos-new-emtb-motor, www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/solarbike/maxun-solar-bike. That is not the case, but all cranks should be checked for proper tightness before riding, and initial installations procedures should be updated, reads TSB 156. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. So that would include rocks, hops, trackstands but also sudden boosts from a standstill. In the higher settings, the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very hard at all. For consumers who do have an EP8-equipped Commencal with e*thirteen cranks, the Andorran brand is offering to replace the e*thirteen cranks with Shimano ones, regardless of whether theyve experienced issues with their EP8 spindle or not. It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. I'm sure a dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag. @tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it. But would the noise stop us from recommending an EP8-equipped bike? Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. Its mostly apparent when freewheeling down really rough trails, but weve been able to detect it when the motor is engaging and disengaging around the 25km/h cutoff on the road, and while cruising over washboard bumps on mundane fireroads. Aside from the sound of the clutch, everything else in the "CONS" list can be fixed with software updates. I think the only way it can get even close (And still doesn't) to that statement, is riding 25km on an analogue, or 50km on an ebike. On my older gen Bosch motor with a 500wh battery I can get about 30 miles out of a battery charge if I only turbo up the steepest climbs and do the other bits in low/mid power settings (and I'm about 100kg's / 16 stone which sucks battery). Bosch's Performance Line CX equals Shimano's torque,. While some frames will resonate more than others, the noise is otherwise normal, and it doesnt take long before your brain subconsciously ignores it. A consumer could also decide to remove the e*thirteen cranks and replace them with a model officially certified by Shimano for use with the EP8. And we certainly wouldnt be upset if Shimano could quieten down the clacking noise. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. No, but the best on the market IMO. But to give you some numbers, weve consistently achieved around 1,500m of climbing during our 30-50km test rides. Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? Having spoken with other long-term EP8 and Bosch Gen 4 users, it would appear that for many riders its a non-issue. In the article it is not considered that much of an issue as supposedly trackstands are less common on e-bikes, but if I'd get one (if ever) that would be just what I can imagine myself do. The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. How stuff like this gets through what I would like to think was extensive testing I will never know. As it stands, you have to use the small button at the base of the display to manually scroll through additional pages just to see your cadence, estimated range and the time. Commencal which has sold a number of its Meta Power electric bikeswith an EP8 motor and e*thirteen crank combination replied to our inquiries. So despite being an engineer the non-linear noisy nature of the reporting makes it very difficult to plan rides and I almost always finish the last few km without assistance for bigger rides. That would be awesome to do laps on. Since working for MBUK, Alexs focus has moved to bike tech. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. The downside for Bosch is that its display options leave a lot to be desired. The Kiox head unit has a nice colour screen with plenty of useful data on it, but were not sold on the magnetic attachment and the fact that the motor wont turn on without the head unit. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get. Overall it is a very refined system though. Shimano has put its long-running Steps E8000 format to pastor and heralds in its EP8 motor unit for 2021. I have ridden ebikes great fun,addictive, you gain some things , but lose some things as well, like all bikes a compromise. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. Maximum power output sits at 500W, although the. A bit like chain slap when you don't apply force on the pedals. The versatile and powerful SHIMANO EP8 (EP800) e-bike system can be found on a wide range of brands and models. Update. What is rattling? You can improve efficiency by limiting the maximum torque, though it is still possible to get maximum power out of the motor by pedalling at a higher cadence, so you wont necessarily get more range by limiting torque. I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. If you are disabled and need a motor on your bike in order to ride, I understand. Power delivery is immediately intuitive thanks to the new MasterMind firmware that Specialized developed specifically for the 2.2 motor, which reduces power spikes from rapid changes in crank speed and pedal pressure. Anyone having problems with the charger? With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. Really? Shimano tried to take the Apple approach to antennaegateyou're holding your phone wrongyou're coasting your bike wrong. Dont be so lazy, put in the work and suffer a little bit! If thats the case for you, start at Level 5 and work your way down a notch at a time. For a lighter pedal feel than the E8000, the one-way bearing has reduced its rotational resistance, creating a free play. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. All I could find is that bike manufacturers are to hold off selling the EP8 until Oct/Nov while they addresses some final issues. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. It's a similar level of feeling to Gen. I suppose pedal assist allows you to tackle the more fun/steep/tech climbs but to be effective it needs to be subtle too. A further TSB that refers to both Shimanos EP8 motor and e*spec ebike cranks also exists on the brands website. Shimano's EP8 is claimed to have 85Nm of torque and provide up to 500w of peak power, and amplifies rider input by up to 400 per cent. The newly shaped buttons on the EM800-L switch unit provide a nice tactile perch for your thumb to quickly flick between those settings. You can't call an e-bike rider lazy when they try to overtake you making this sound. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. [The] topic has been closed from Shimano[s] side but e*thirteen is still investigating with independent labs.. 214 Hopefully this option will open up to non-Garmin users in the future. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. 5Nm doesnt sound like much on paper, but on the trail the Levos 2.2 motor is noticeably musclier than Shimano EP8, particularly at the extreme ends of the cadence spectrum. So, when the sensor senses a negative elevation gain, the dynamo kicks in to recharge the battery. Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. Sign in to manage your newsletter preferences. A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. The noise is easily demonstrated if you pick the back wheel up a few inches off the ground and let it come back down. Thanks to lightweight magnesium components, Shimano has shaved off a cool 200g of weight making it one of the lightest electric bike motors on the market today. The Bosch motor produces the same 85Nm peak torque output as Shimano EP8, and it offers a similarly drag-free ride quality beyond the 25km/h cutoff due to the motor decoupling from the cranks. One is a Haibike Fat-Tire with a Yamaha Drive, the second is an absolutely brilliant 40lb (including battery) DIODE from LaMere Cycles in the USA. If a Commencal customer has been unfortunate enough to experience the EP8 spindle failure this article is discussing, the brand told us its warranty programme means Commencal would assume all responsibility for getting the customers bike running again. When they start looking (and weighing closer to regular trail bikes then I'll consider. "- Only five power bars for charge level.". I rode an e bike and suffered a little bit yesterday. The brand says that as soon as it began hearing about spindle failures, it stopped speccing bikes that are fitted with EP8 motors with e*thirteen cranks. dont think people would fancy riding a fixie down a trail. I read a similar story around christmas on an other forum. Ebikes are cool but not quite refined enough to jump in yet. When the motor applies torque it pushes in one direction and closes the gap, when there is no torque the ring can rock a little. Stay tuned, as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon. That said, wed prefer if there were more metrics displayed on the main screen to begin with, so you could ditch the GPS altogether. But please don't anyone kid themselves that it's as much of a work out as an analogue bike, if there was no mechanical advantage over analogue what would be the benefit. - Can we have remaining battery displayed as a percentage please? With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. What makes me sad is seeing young people hop on the e bike train so that they can go on a longer ride or so that someone who is new to cycling can keep up with their friends who have been riding for years, all to perpetuate needless consumerism and a gross waste of resources. - Lightweight and small form factor The biggest change has been with Trail mode, which now gives you access to the full 85Nm of torque if youre pedalling hard enough. For the type of riding and trails I do, battery power is not an issue, in fact would look at a smaller battery and weight savings on my next rig. This is a real review with details and pros and cons. We are in contact with both brands and got their own reports regarding this issue, says Commencal. I've spent some time on this motor and it's one of the first to feel organic in the way it adjusts to the rider's pedaling. Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. Simply named by Specialized as the 2.2, the motor continues to offer 90Nm of peak torque, and externally it has the same mounting points and overall shape. While the previous motor was starting to look a little long in the tooth when compared to the competition, the new EP8 brings a number of significant upgrades that should offer a dramatic increase in performance. Pickup is faster too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the rear tyre. What this article says to me is no wonder people make fun of mountain bikers. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Bunny hops were absolutely a blast on this bike. It also responds a fraction quicker at the pedals, and delivers more overrun power when ratcheting the pedals over technical features up a climb. The compact size and a magnesium casing helped cut 300 grams. The only Shimano-approved pedal cranks listed on Shimanos website are the FC-EM600, FC-M8150 and FC-EM900, all of which are available to buy aftermarket from various retailers. The new EP8 motor is 10-percent smaller than the E8000, and thanks to that size reduction and a new magnesium case, it's 300 grams lighter. That rattling feeling comes from one way bearing. Good thing with Shimano is warranty,at least here in Madrid is almost instantaneous. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. If youre sprinting at speed, the Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to the drag-free EP8 motor. Start with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how far you can go before you run out of juice. Non-recommended 3rd party cranks can make a crack in the spindle because the difference in design from Shimanos crank causes increased stress around the spindle hole. Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. I chose this bike because it has the EP8 and from research, seems to be the most reliable platform out there, assuming it's as reliable as the E8000. Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. You can hear it in the workshop just by lifting the rear wheel and dropping it on the ground, where it sounds a bit like a loose pebble bouncing around inside a wooden box. - Tuning options are simple and effective The new motor, called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a lot lighter. Plus integration looks like shit on those Nox bikes. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c. At 52+ lbs, you're going to be using that motor every pedal stroke. I tried to find out the cause of this. There are 5 levels of adjustment from Mild to Quick, with the highest setting requiring only a small rotation with light pedal force to engage the motor. Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by manufacturing defects, ethirteen claims. This is particularly noticeable on traction-poor climbs, even when starting from a standstill. Yeah, that's pretty poor! So many issues that can be simply solved by not having a motor. My brain constantly struggles with whether 2 bars remaining means I have 21% or 59%I would prefer a continuous power bar or percent. He started racing downhill at the tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe. Hes one of BikeRadars lead testers and knows how to push bikes and products to the limit, searching out the equipment that represents the best value for money. Overall its a vastly neater execution compared to the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with their Kinder Surprise-style switch units. Thus when I'm carrying a spare battery I can get up to 60 mile rides in, which e-bike or not, is still a hell of a day in the saddle. We will have them soon available in all our subsidiaries (Canada, USA, Chile, Australia, NZ and Reunion Island) to reach all our customers worldwide.. I'm not an ebike hater - but (you knew it was coming) - I can't ever see myself being able to justify the expense of one and I wouldn't like to risk a second hand one. Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. In comparison, you can get a Polygon Mt Bromo N8 with a Shimano EP8 motor for $7,899 AUD. Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. Can we get reviews this in depth for regular bikes? We have shared the results with Shimano and select OEM customers. Don't worry: "Every time you start your pitchfork, it resets into 'no stab' mode. All you guys "waiting" to get a ebike are blowing it..the bikes are refined trek rail no problems..going around the country slaying every trail I see chugging beer and laughing at all u haters.. believe me I guys will all be on one sooner than later.
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